Guy Mettan discusses the deep thousand year history of Russophobia which informs the current Ukraine crisis. Europe had divided in two parts along religious lines which can still be seen in Ukraine today. He traces Russophobia from medieval Germany to France to Britain and back again to Germany and today the U.S. and EU. Brzezinski outlined the importance of conquering Ukraine because it’s the pivotal power of Europe. Ukraine is the first battle of the Third World War. It won’t be a total war, it will be a global unlimited war, unlimited in space and time where everybody will be affected. He agrees that there is a neo-totalitarian trend in the West and that democracy is a false flag. He’s pessimistic regarding the future development of our world as the U.S. and EU develop into a totalitarian new empire. But he’s optimistic that the light of the truth can’t be extinguished.
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TRANSCRIPT
Geopolitics & Empire:
The Geopolitics & Empire is joined by Guy Mettan who is a journalist and Swiss politician, former Director and Editor-in-Chief of the main Geneva Newspaper Tribune de Geneve. Executive Director of the Geneva Press Club and columnist for various Swiss newspapers since 2001.
He’s been a member of the Geneva Parliament, was a Speaker of the Parliament in 2010, and is author of several books. Two from Clarity Press, which we’ll be discussing today. Creating Russophobia: From the Great Religious Schism to Anti-Putin Hysteria, and Europe’s Existential Dilemma: To Be or Not to Be an American Vassal. Hello and welcome, Mr. Mettan.
Guy Mettan:
Hello. Good to see you. I’m happy to talk with you to today.
Geopolitics & Empire:
Yeah. Thank you for taking the time. I wanted to talk about both of your books and themes of what’s going on in Ukraine and the new cold war on Russia, as well as the EU project itself. And both are very important right now and interlinked.
You’ve said the West has engaged in more or less violent hostilities for 1,000 years against Russia. And this is something no one seems to talk about today. People are forgetting. The media doesn’t talk about this. From Napoleon and Hitler to the US, EU, and NATO today, it’s clear much of the aggression, much of the time has come from the West against Russia. So, could you kind of help us understand the current conflict and what’s going on with Ukraine, the conflict, this war, and why Russia is so hated?
Guy Mettan:
Yeah. So, thank you for the question. It’s a very long story. As you said, it’s in my view, 1,000 years old story, because I think the roots of this conflict we can see now in Ukraine are very deeply rooted in history in Europe. In my view, everything has started with 1,200 years ago when a new emperor came into power here in Europe. The name of this emperor was Charlemagne, Charles the Great. And he was the first one, who was a German, and he was the first one to restore … He wanted to restore the old Roman Empire, which collapsed at the fifth century after Jesus Christ.
This guy was a conqueror. He was a blood maker, if I can say, because he killed a lot of people to conquer his new stage in Germany. It was in South Germany and north of France, whose capital was Aix-la-Chapelle, Aachen now in Germany. This guy wanted to change the religion, because it was the Orthodox, religious at the time. Everybody was Orthodox in Europe or in the East, in Jerusalem, Turkey and so on, and Constantinople.
This guy wanted to change the composition of the Trinity. You have the father, the son, and the Holy Spirit. He wanted to change a little bit the thing. It’s ideological fight for him in order to have a common ideology, new religious ideology for his states, but he could not succeed. He succeeded to become an emperor because the Pope … He had the Pope to reconquer the holy city in Rome. He could become emperor, but he could not change the religion.
This change came one century, 50 years later, in the 10th century, when a new German prince called Otto was able also to gather European states and to create a new empire. It was the Holy Roman German Empire. And he wanted also to change the Holy German. He could not succeed at first. His successor was able to do it 50 years later, and it was the religious schism. We have told just a few minutes, which happened in the 11th century.
Why this remembering of the history? Because this religious schism between Catholic, people who became Catholic, it was in the Western Europe and the Orthodox in the Eastern part of Europe. In Greece and Byzantine Empire was the first divide of Europe, of the Christian world, let’s say, in two parts. And now, we can still see that in Ukraine.
For instance, in Ukraine, you have also the same division between the Uniates in Ukraine, in West Ukraine. These people are from Orthodox right, but they’re submitted to Catholic Pope in Rome. They depend on the Pope. And the Eastern part of Ukraine is still remain the state, pure Orthodox. You have this divide, this gap just in the middle of Ukraine. So, it’s a very 1,000 year history. We can see always today, until today, the importance of this topic even now in the modern Ukraine.
I just mentioned that to remember how deep is this divide. Because after the collapse of the Greek Christianity, of the Eastern Christianity, the collapse of Constantinopolis, with Ottoman, with the Turks at the 15th century, the heritage of the Orthodox Christianity and the heritage of the Byzantine Empire was transferred to Moscow, because it was Moscow who take into account as the heritage. All this religious and political was the follow-up, if I can say.
And the hate between Catholic and Orthodox was also transferred to the Russian after the collapse of the Byzantine. So, we can see how the hate of the Eastern, or the Orthodox has migrated during centuries.
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Guy Mettan:
It’s interesting also to notice, but in the modern times, in the late 18th century, it was the French king, Louis XV who rediscover, if I can say, the Russophobia, because he married a Polish princess. So, he take the Polish view of the world very anti-Russian in his mind. And this guy has heard a fake document called the fake testament of Peter the Great. Saw Peter the Great. It was completely fake, but for this fake paper, he was saying that the mission of the Tsar, of the heirs of Peter the Great was to conquer Europe, France, Germany, Italy and so on.
Completely fake, but Napoleon, because Napoleon was angry with the Tsar. They were friends, but after the divide, the conflict. Napoleon rediscovered this fake document and he published it in 1812, because he wanted to make a war against the Tsar, Alexander I and has to justify to find the reason or to invent a reason.
So, he published this fake testament saying, “Oh, look, the mission, the historical missions of the Tsar is to conquer Germany, France, and all Europe. So, we have to make, as a French power, to make a preemptive war against Russia in order to stop them, to conquer them. We have to attack Russia at first before they will attack us and conquer us.” And it was the Napoleon expedition in Russia. Unfortunately, for Napoleon, he was beaten. He was defeated and he has to surrender.
That’s the emerging of the modern Russophobia through the French King and after the French Emperor, Napoleon. Maybe I am too long, but this forged document, this fake testament was after the Napoleonic Wars. It was translated into English by the British ideologues, the British imperialist just after the Treaty of Vienna in 1815, after 1815. And why? Because after Napoleon was defeated, there were two victory nations. One was Great Britain with Nelson. The Battle of Trafalgar, and General Wilmington. And the other victor power was Russia with Tsar Alexander. So, two victors.
The British were very happy. Then the Russian were helping them to defeat Napoleon. But after the victory, it was a problem for them, because they didn’t wish to share the victory with the Russian. So, they started to develop a new Russophobia inside within Great Britain. That’s the reason why they translated the fake testament of Peter the Great for saying to the British public opinion. “Oh, look. Look at this document. The Russian, maybe they help us to fight against Napoleon. But now, their will to conquer, their will to be expansionist. So, we have also to defend ourself and to make the war with them.”
And they did it during the … We can see when we read, for instance, The Times newspaper or London Times and so on saying this kind of forgery becoming more and more successful with some cartoons, designing Tsar as a vampire with big teeth. You can see London Tower or London St Paul Cathedral with the vampire flying on London with big teeth to suck the poor British citizen. So, that kind of propaganda, and it was quite successful.
Because what happened in 1853, the British, with the help of the French, they invaded Russia and they made the first Crimean War in 1853, during two, three years. It was big war, quite an important war, because it was also kind of with the help of Turkey. Also, three, four countries against Russia, as we can see now. So, not yet NATO, but the same partners, if we can say that.
So, we can say this Russophobia migrating from France to Great Britain. And it’s also funny to remark the Dracula. The Dracula, the novel of Dracula. The book was written in 70 years. It was 1878, I think, the first publication. Dracula was the caricature of the Tsar. Because at that time, that time, the Carpathian place where Dracula was supposed to leave belonged to the Russian Empire. So, it was a propaganda novel against the Russian. We have forgotten that now, because now Romania is no more Russia. But at the time, it was written, this Dracula book, just as a propaganda tool against the Russian by the British imperialist from the 19th century.
And after that, we can see that the Russophobia migrated from Great Britain to Germany. Why? Because at the end of the 19th century, the German Empire was built after the victory against France, and the Versailles, the Chateau de Versailles in 1870. At the time, 20 years later, Germany was completely built up.
The empire was completely integrated and the German emperor has observed. “Okay, we have the empire. We are the first power in Continental Europe, but we have no colonies. So, it’s unjust, because everybody in the world has colonies in Africa, in Asia and so on, but we have nothing. The Spanish, Latin America, the British, and the French Africa, the Holland as Indonesia, Malaysia, but we have nothing. But everything is occupied. We have something, maybe some countries in Africa, but that’s not enough.”
And they developed the idea of German expansion in the Eastern Europe, in Ukraine and in Russia. And that’s why they developed a new kind of German Russophobia saying, “Oh, our Lebensraum, our vital space will be in Eastern Europe.” And we can see the German propagandist, the German ideologist, the German geopolitician developing this Drang nach Osten in German language. This push to the East to translate. Drang nach Osten, in Ukraine and German.
The German Emperor tried to do it during the First World War, and Hitler took the same ideas and transformed that into a racist one. And he tried to do it during the Second World War, but unfortunately, Germany or Nazi Germany was defeated in 1945. So, the dream of Hitler collapsed by chance, and it collapsed thanks to the Soviets, thanks to the Russians, the USSR.
In 1945, we have exactly the same pictures as we had in 1850, after the Napoleonic Wars. We have two big victors, the victory powers. One was United States, and the other one, the Russia, the Communist Russia, the USSR. And exactly the same thing happened after 1945, because the United States were very happy to see that the Soviet has defeated Hitler with 26 millions people dead, with 26 million victims in Soviet, and only 200,000 American soldiers who died in the war. So, the main Victor power against Hitler was not United States, but USSR early in the figures.
Geopolitics & Empire:
Yep. I wanted to jump a bit forward. You’re one of the few that really lays out this foundation. This is crucial, I think, to understand. No one is talking about this. It’s just, in many ways, history repeating itself, empire and these different cycles. Then just kind of to jump forward to today.
Many people know. It’s well known and we don’t need to get into … If we go from the 2000s until today, what’s happening. The 2004, we had the orange color revolution. In 2014, we had the Maidan Coup where Canada, and US, and all these NGOs basically took control of Ukraine, and they’ve been using it as a battering ram to go for Russia. We see the Rand Corporation in 2019 white paper. It seems like they really want to try to destroy Russia again and subjugated completely.
And then to get your thoughts on today, 2022, how you see the events in Ukraine. For a while, my view is … In your books, you’ve talked about Yugoslavia as well. I’m Croatian. As a child, I spend 1994 in Croatia during part of the war. And I feel that Ukraine right now will … The West wants Ukraine, the war to continue. It will become like a Yugoslavia, like situation where it will go on for years, but it seems like they are willing to risk world war. Again, what are your thoughts on what’s happening today, the situation in Ukraine?
Guy Mettan:
Yeah. Just to finish in one minute. After 1945, we have this United States and USSR as victor. But what happened, United States didn’t want to share the victor with the USSR, and they started the Cold War against communists. And what happened 40 years later in the end of the ’80s, when the USSR collapsed, disappeared, normally that they should … And NATO, because NATO was built against Soviet, against the communist, against the Soviet state, but as soon as the Soviet state disappeared, collapsed, there were no more ground for maintaining NATO, but it didn’t happen.
Why? Because even if United States was the victor power of the Cold War, it was not enough for them, because they started what we call the globalization. And to ensure the US, Germany on the world, there were still a big stone in the shoe that was still Russia. Even if Russia was poor with the Yeltsin time in the ’90s, were very economically depressed and so on, but it was not enough for United States to get this still very big country alive.
They tried, as you said, as you mentioned, not to close NATO but to develop it. To develop it. Because 1991, there were only 15 countries member of NATO. And today, there are 30 countries. So, the trouble in a peace time when the enemy disappeared, collapsed. Despite of that NATO doubled. So, that’s because United States wanted absolutely to contain Russian threat and everything, and started from there.
Because when Yeltsin passed away and Putin came into power, restore, rebuilt the Russian economy, making Russia strong again with an army, with pretty strong economy and so on, it was unacceptable for the United States. That’s why they continued, they followed the development of NATO and also the containment of Russia.
It was President Bush. The Brzezinski book, The Great Chessboard, written in 1997 saying, “Oh, we have to conquer Ukraine, because Ukraine is the pivotal power in Europe. We, absolutely, have to conquer Ukraine. Because if Ukraine remain in the Russian orbit, in the Russian sphere of influence, it will bring too big power, give too big power to Russia, so we have to take it in order to cut the influence of Russia, the power of Russia in Western Europe.”
That was the purpose of Madeleine Albright, Brzezinski, Wolfowitz, all the neoconservatives at the time. And they just applied the plan. They just realized the plan. The plan they conceived in the ’90s. And step by step, it was built. The first big friction, if I can say, happened in 2006 when George W. Bush announced at NATO Summit in 2006, the first time he expressed the idea that Ukraine and Georgia could be member of NATO. It was a red line for the Russian.
And just a few months later in 2007, President Putin at the Munich Conference on security said very firmly. “We cannot accept that Ukraine and Georgia will belong to NATO, because for us, it’s just a question of existential. It’s a vital problem for us, so it’s a red line. We cannot accept that.” It was the first time, so 15 years ago that Putin said that to the Western countries, to the NATO countries, but it was not heard, not at all. Because what happened a few months after the Munich Conference in April 2008, the NATO Summit officially invited Ukraine and Georgia. Opened the door to Ukraine and Georgia.
And just after that, four months later, in August 2008, United States supported the attack of Georgia in Ossetia against Russia, if you remember. In August 2008, when Putin was participating to the opening ceremony of the Beijing Olympic games, the Georgian has seized the opportunity saying, “Oh, Putin is in Beijing. The Russian are probably drinking some vodka, so we can attack.” Because they got the permission of the United States, of their supporter. And they did it, but unfortunately for them, Russian were very, very attentive and they were awake and they have beaten the Georgian. We can see this progressive aggressivity from NATO supported by United States against Russia. And after you have the Maidan coup and Russia.
Geopolitics & Empire:
And where do you think this will lead? I mean, we have even Lavrov recently talking about the threat of World War III. We’ve got the West, we’ve got commentators in the US insisting on direct conflict with Russia. They’re sending arms. I think this week, I think the Congress just approved a lot of money.
Guy Mettan:
Yeah. No, you are quite right. Just to explain, I insist a little bit on history even if it is not very popular, but I think it would be interesting just to see how deep is this divide, and why the fight. Why the war we can see now in Ukraine is something very deep in the guts, if I can say. Of the Ukrainian people, of the West, but also for the Russian, obviously, but you are right.
We are not in the New Cold War. We are in a new Third World War, if I can say, with this Ukrainian fight. I don’t think it will world war, total war with nuclear strikes and so on, because every party is aware of the risk, of the dangers of a nuclear war, but it will be a global war, implying all the countries, all the world in it.
First, the Europeans, the Americans, the NATO, with Canada, Japan, and all the allies of United States, and the European world, the Western world, but also China, India, and the non-allied countries. Everybody will be impacted by this war, as we can say, because of energy, of fertilizer, of wheat and agricultural production and so on. Prices going up and so on.
So, for me, it’s the first battle of the Third World War, if I can say. This war is original, if I can say, is local between Ukraine and Russia for the domination or for the liberation of the Donbas and the Russian speaking people in Ukraine, in the Eastern Ukraine. But it’s also a global unlimited war. I prefer to speak of unlimited war, not total because it’s unlimited in space, as with all the world will take part, if I can say, from one step. Depend economically. Not, obviously, military, but also economically and so on.
Unlimited in space, but unlimited also in time, because I don’t think this war will finish now. I think the peace is now impossible between the two camps after the Bucha affair. Bucha supposed crimes of war, crimes against humanity, genocide, Joe Biden said. I think it’s impossible to make peace, because the hatred, the hate between the two is so high that now it’s impossible.
I live in Geneva, Switzerland. Even in Switzerland, because this Bucha affair was created, it was a [foreign language 00:34:06]. In English, it was not fake because all these people died from the war.
Geopolitics & Empire:
Would you say false flag operation?
Guy Mettan:
Yes, exactly. False flag operation, that kind of thing. A scenery. It was created in order to make the public opinion in the Western country, in Ukraine, for sure, but also in Western country. So, historically, anti-Russian, just to impede any chance, to break any chance of peace. To make this war unlimited in the time.
Same for the Russian. Because now, in the Donbas, in the parts of Ukraine, let’s say occupied or liberated by the Russian, Kherson in south, it’s impossible to come back into a Ukrainian government. Because with this Azov battalions, with this far white or Neo-Nazi people, they will kill everybody. If they win, they will kill everybody now, because everybody in that parts of Ukraine will be suspected of betrayal or to be of the accomplice of the Russian, and they will be killed. So, it’s the division, the separation of Ukraine in two parts now is done. And it’s impossible to come back to the old, unified Ukraine because of that.
So, it’s unlimited in space, in time, and also in the team, because it involves all the aspects of the human activities. It will be a military war. It will be an economic war. It will be a cultural war, as we can say, with the tradition of the Dostoevsky, Tchaikovsky, all the Russian authors and writers and in the West. So, it’s a cultural war. It’s also religious war, as I explained in the beginning of this talk, and it’s also propaganda war and information war. Because propaganda is very strong on both sides.
It’s a kind of a multi-specters, if I can say war. So, that’s why it will not end in the coming months, even in the coming years. All what we can hope is to have a kind of frozen conflict, but peace, I think, will not happen before years and years.
Geopolitics & Empire:
I would agree with you. I wanted to get your thought on the information war aspect. I mean, you’ve worked as a journalist and in media for many years. I’m a Croatian citizen. I’m an American, so I’m a European American.
We’re told that the West is this democratic space, freedom, and all of this. Now, I’m experiencing that it’s a total lie. The West is becoming totalitarian. In your book, you’ve said the West is not the most beautiful in the world. The censorship is insane.
Last year, I was terminated from Patreon, which was one way for people to send me money to do this broadcast. Two weeks ago, the Department of Homeland Security in America created The Ministry of Truth like in 1984. The Disinformation Governance Board. That same week, I was banned from PayPal. And just yesterday Spotify, one of the most popular podcast channels, started taking down episodes of my podcast.
You’ve talked about journalists paralyzed by the fear of losing their jobs. It’s crazy what’s happening in America and Europe. They’ve taken down Russia Today channels. And my own government and these American companies are censoring me, an American, just for having a podcast, just for talking. Having conversations with people like yourself. What do you make of this in the West?
Guy Mettan:
No. But for me, I was surprised. Not exactly surprised, because I think it’s already 10 years or 15 years trend. This new or neo-totalitarian trend, as we can say. It happens since a few years with the fact checkers and the debunkers, which are just the police of the net. Sorry, but the Gestapo of the net.
These guys are not there to make the real facts existing or to show the reality. They are just there to make the police and to impede the people like you or me who are trying to give a broader view of the situation, let’s say. Because as a journalist, what I try to do is not to say Putin is right or Russia is good, because it’s not the news. It’s not interesting. It’s just to say, “Please have a broader vision of the world. Look at all the situation. Look at the whole picture. Not only a small part as it is shown by the Western media, the Western press and so on.”
So, we live now in such a propagandistic information war. It’s very hard for you, for me to exist. Because you mentioned the democracy, for me, it’s just a false flag, the democracy, or the human rights, because the Western powers have always democracy and human rights in the mouth, on the lips. All the time they mention, “Oh, we are fighting for democracy and human rights.” That’s not true. We have seen what was signification, the meaning of democracy in Yugoslavia, in Syria, in bombing Iraq two times, bombing Afghanistan, invasion of Libya and so on.
It was not to bring the democracy. It was to bring the cause, because all these countries are living in full cause. So, it’s no democracy at all. And in the same time, we are supporting Saudi Arabia, which is not precisely a model of democracy, so that’s just fake. But it’s double standard. Speech is playing well, because it’s convincing the Western public opinion that the right is with them, with us, if we can say. That’s not true, but it functions.
What I try to do as a journalist is to keep borderline, if I can say. I try to wide in the official or mainstream newspaper regularly not to be expelled, if I can say. As a complotist, as, I don’t know, fact … Yes, complotist or …
Geopolitics & Empire:
They say conspiracy theorist, right? Conspiracy.
Guy Mettan:
Yes. Conspiracy theorist and so on. So, just to keep the line, just at the border, at the limit, if I can say, in order to keep audible, if I can say. I am a pessimistic about the future development of our world into a totalitarian new empire, if I can say. But I am also optimistic because I think the light of the truth, even if it is small, even if it is only a candle, let’s say like that, this brings light. And if you can have some truth, this truth will be repeated maybe with few people, but the rumor of truth will also expand.
I like to make a comparison. Also, sorry for you, but with the history. In the beginnings of the Christian times, in the Roman Empire, these Christians were the dissidents of the time. They were against the mainstream imperial Rome. They have to live in catacombs. They have to hide themselves in forest, in poor place in the cities. A little bit like us today as a minority, but they won. Because years after years, they were able to expand this small light to more and more people. So, I think it’s the duty we have to maintain this light enlightened, if I can say, even if it is not so … We are not gifted, or we are not rewarded for that.
Geopolitics & Empire:
It’s the first time I’ve heard it put the way that you have put it, and it actually gives me optimism that, as you say, even if the truth is just one candle left, I don’t think it can ever be fully removed. And that gives us optimism to keep on going and keep doing what we are doing.
I’m also in agreement with you. I’m very pessimistic about the future. I feel much of the world is moving towards a totalitarianism, a brave new world. You talk about the US transitioning from an imperial republic towards a new empire. If we use the example of Europe, your second book, we don’t have too much time to fully get into it. I recommend people buy your books, but to talk about Europe.
I’ve interviewed Voltaire Network’s, Thierry Meyssan not long ago. He said that he believed one of the purposes of Ukraine, the conflict was for the US to weaken the EU and Europe, not to allow it strategic economy so it would remain under the American empire’s wing. As well, I questioned the roots of the …
Guy Mettan:
Exactly what I explained in my book. Yes. To make Europe as a vassal of United States, a pure vassal. Yeah.
Geopolitics & Empire:
Yeah. I’ve always questioned the roots of the EU. In your book, you talk about … You have a chapter called European Technocratic Dictatorship. You quote, “What if the plans for Europe imagined under the Nazi occupation were the unsettling pre-history of our democratic European construction?” Soviet dissidents such as Bukovsky who you cite have dubbed the EU the new European Soviet.
Even now, I just read this week, the EU wants to create a total surveillance of all of our emails and phone chats, so you will have no privacy, and so it’s really not looking good. What re your thoughts on the EU?
Guy Mettan:
No. I was a supporter of EU 40 years ago, because 40 years ago, yes, it was, in my view, a solution against the civil wars in Europe and so on. But after the collapse of USSR from the ’90s, the soul of Europe has completely changed. Has shifted into a neoliberal power in arts, economy, center, the institution of organization.
It was an economic totalitarianism, neoliberal, or ultra-liberal, ultra-capitalist. And now, it’s shifted into a political one, ideological one, information war one. It will not stop, because with the development of the oligarchies, of the oligarchs. We say, “Oh, there is oligarchs in Russia.” But the oligarchs are between us, at home. And this social class will never leave the power, will never abandon the power. So, it will happen exactly during what happened in the Roman times with the development of transformation of the Roman Republic 2,000 years ago into an empire, the totalitarian empire. It’s exactly what we can see now. Europe is following this path under the United States umbrella.
I was hoping, dreaming that Europe could resist to that, could transform itself not into a vassal of the United States, but as an autonomous, an independent, neutral organization or continent able to make the balance between United States and China. United States and China are the two rising powers, if I can say, so we need for the security of the world. We need a third power. It could be Europe. Just to bring a kind of balance between the two. Because if we are only two competitors, probably one time, they will make a war between them.
But if you have multi-polar world as Russia, also West, but also the countries like India, like Brazil, or Europe. If Europe could play this role of third part kind of arbiter, or kind of counter balancing power between China and Europe, the world would become much more secure. But unfortunately, this is not what Europe is doing. As we can say in the Ukraine war, Europe has taken side with United States. It’s even more historical than the Americans in that conflict. Europe want more sanctions, deliver more weapons to the Ukrainians. So, it’s completely crazy for me. That’s why I am very pessimistic about the destiny of my continent, if I can say.
Geopolitics & Empire:
I would agree with you. And just along those lines, I see some contradictions. Not in what you’re saying, but I’m making observations where in your book you’ve talked about Europe being solely on the way to third-worldization. That the day is perhaps not far off, because there’s this huge inequality. We’re seeing it globally. We’re seeing it in the US, here in Mexico. I mean, the economy globally is just declining and it’s like the middle class is being wiped out and we’ve got the ultra elites, oligarchs, as you say, and this …
Guy Mettan:
And the quality of the infrastructures, the railroad, towards the schooling also, it’s collapsing. The level of the schooling of the education is collapsing in the Western world. You can see now that Korean, the Indians are better in mathematics, in physics, and many science better than us, because the level is going down. That’s also a bad sign for the future.
Geopolitics & Empire:
Yeah, I would agree. I mean, I worked in education for more than a decade in Kazakhstan. I was working here in Mexico. Just to kind of get your view on where … And you say that history shows us that there are two alternatives. Both are disastrous that the decline of the republic and its transformation into a repressive totalitarian regime.
As you said, the EU and America as well. A lot of people say the US empire is declining, collapsing, the dollar is losing its status. In the West and EU, there’s talk of them declining economically, collapsing, even civil war. Yet at the same time, you talk about this new empire rising, and I’m trying to understand. I can see both. I can see in one way, the Western empire does seem to be strong, but at the same time, there are a lot of these cracks appearing. How do you evaluate that?
Guy Mettan:
Yeah. No, that’s apparently contradictory. We have an expansion of the empire, and also a kind of internal collapse. But what happens when such an evolution can be observed, it’s a kind of militarization of the empire, because you need more and more police. You need more and more army in order to maintain the angry citizens.
The [foreign language 00:53:36], for instance, in France, because the social classes who are excluded from the prosperity. Prosperity is stolen by the upper class. So, these people are more and more angry because they have no chance of development for their children. They have less and less medical care. They have less money and so on.
So, in order to keep these people quiet, you need strong police or strong army, because police and army, it’s just the two legs of the same security state. Since 9/11, we are still living in our countries in the West in more and more policy or police states.
Geopolitics & Empire:
Police states. Yeah.
Guy Mettan:
Yes, exactly. And we have, for instance, emergency. We are living on emergency state because the parliament have voted emergency laws because of terrorists, war against terrorists. Now, it’s war against Russia. It was war against COVID-19. Every two years or every three years, we have a new war against a new enemy because you need an enemy to strengthen the police and to make the citizen just quiet and obey for you. Well, that’s the future I am fearing for us in the coming years. But let’s keep optimistic too, because we have to keep the world, we have to open the … Yeah.
Geopolitics & Empire:
Just one more comment on that. Just got another question or two left.
Guy Mettan:
Yeah.
Geopolitics & Empire:
Next week, I’ll be speaking to Professor William Robinson who has a book about the global police state. You’ve mentioned in your book like these digital technologies, the fourth industrial revolution, it seems that they will try to use some of these digital technologies to try to control us.
EU is now creating this digital ID, this digital passport. We saw during the pandemic, you were not allowed to go into some countries like supermarkets or travel without your phone with the passport. What are your thoughts on this? It’s like a Chinese social credit system. Any thoughts on these digital technologies that will be used to control us?
Guy Mettan:
You know, that’s exactly the point, because we like to denounce the police state of the Chinese, but we are applying exactly the same receipts. That’s the problem. That’s the problem. I am a supporter because I met Julian Assange twice. He came in 2010 in the Swiss Press Club when I was the director. And in 2015, I visited him in his Ecuadorian embassy in London, so I met him twice.
I am a big supporter, because he was the first one after it was, first, Snowden did the same a few years later. But Assange was the first whistle blower saying, “Pay attention. We are living in a new surveillance world.” He was quite right. He said that 30 years ago, 12 years ago. Now, we are just seeing exactly what he has announced 12 years ago, just in our life, just today with the QR code and everything. And also the phone, everything is under control, and we have no more privacy. That’s finished for a long time. But I am sure we will find underground way to survive or to go behind the obstacle or upon the obstacle. Yeah. I don’t know how. I don’t know yet how and when, but we will do it
Geopolitics & Empire:
Like the Christians in the catacombs.
Guy Mettan:
Exactly.
Geopolitics & Empire:
Yeah. Go ahead.
Guy Mettan:
You know what I think? What is important for me when we are a few people to say that, it’s important for me to get personal links, to make a community. Because why? For me, the early Christians could survive, because they were very strong as a community. They share not only the values and the religion and so on, but they share a deep sense of community, of human relations, let’s say like that.
That’s very important, because if you feel completely alone in your office, even I am feeling completely alone in my small place in Geneva, I am completely lost. But if we can talk as we are doing now, we create a community. Other people will join. Maybe not a lot, but supporting. And I think that’s really important. It’s like the candlelight. These people, this new regime is trying to do is to destroy the human community, the human being. If we are able to maintain, we will win one day.
Geopolitics & Empire:
That’s what they tried to do the last two years with this biosecurity state. Social distancing, isolate everyone, lockdown, which is a prison term. So, if you have any final thought for us. As you said, how do citizens prepare for the tough times ahead, resisting tyranny, fighting for a better future, better Europe, better world?
I think you already gave the key advice, which was keep telling the truth, hold onto that little candle and community. I think that’s one of the most important things.
Guy Mettan:
Yes. Keep the truth alive together, if I can say. Yeah.
Geopolitics & Empire:
All right. I really haven’t found much presence of you online. Where are the best places to find you online, or what books, or projects that should we know about?
Guy Mettan:
[inaudible 01:00:31] I’m not very active online, because I am more writer, so I write articles. I publish articles in the papers, but I have not so many podcasts to be Frank. And unfortunately, they are in French until now. But as you can say, my English is not so good, but I try. It’s not so good, so I have to improve it to make some podcast in English. But thanks to you. I will try to do that.
Geopolitics & Empire:
No problem there. My French is absolutely horrible. You’ve got a few books in English. I think we can get them from Clarity Press or Amazon.
Guy Mettan:
Yes. You mentioned Creating Russophobia and Europe’s Existential Dilemma for the moment in English. They’ve been published in China too, in Russia. The first one also in Sweden, in Italy and other countries, but only two in English for now, but we will continue anyway.
Geopolitics & Empire:
Yes. Keep on fighting the good fight. And again, I would tell everyone to buy Guy Mettan’s books. The links will be in the description from Clarity Press, Amazon, or wherever. Merci for being on Geopolitics & Empire.
Guy Mettan:
Thank you for you, and please keep in touch so we can exchange as you like, as often as you wish. Great pleasure for me.
Outro:
I hope you enjoyed this Geopolitics & Empire podcast. The website is geopoliticsandempire.com and I encourage you to sign up for the free email list that goes out with each podcast and every weekend with a collection of news headlines.
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About Guy Mettan
GUY METTAN is a journalist and Swiss politician. Former director and editor-in-chief of the main Geneva newspaper Tribune de Genève, he is presently the executive director of the Geneva Press Club and columnist for various Swiss newspapers. Member of the Geneva Parliament since 2001, he was the speaker of the Parliament in 2010 and author of several books, most lately this successful book on western russophobia originally published by Editions des Syrtes. There are now French, Italian, Russian, Serbian, and Swedish editions of this title, in addition to this one in English.
*Podcast intro music is from the song “The Queens Jig” by “Musicke & Mirth” from their album “Music for Two Lyra Viols”: https://musicke-mirth.de/en/recordings.html (available on iTunes or Amazon)
